The worst people

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 02/23/2020 at 11:56 • Filed to: Do It Right

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The worst people in the world - DIY’ers who don’t know what they hell they are doing and will happily pass off their shoddy, illegal and dangerous handiwork with a smile.

Spent $600, my saturday and many many hand cuts to find and fix said incompetence.

You know whats against code? hiding a junction box. Especially when it’s wired badly and overstuffed.

Every string we pulled on revealed more horrors, like can lighting where the ground was just the coincidence that the exposed wires outside the box happen to touch the housing. as well as a mystery set of hot wires that weren’t capped sitting right next to it.

Reverse hot/neutral all over the place and, surprise! ANOTHER hidden junction box in a wet area.

This whole house is full of crappy DIY that I’ve been replacing ever since I bought it. What are inspections for again?

New plan - start over. Seriously I think this spring we are going to gut this basement and completely start over. it’s been something we’ve been threatening for a while and the threat of mysterious electrical fires have reignited the motivators.

Nibby > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 12:19

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burn the house down and live in a 90s land cruiser

Nom De Plume > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 12:19

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Stopping spending money on tradesmen and digging in yourself has a ring to it there.

HammerheadFistpunch > Nom De Plume 02/23/2020 at 12:20

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Diy good. Crappy Diy bad

HammerheadFistpunch > Nibby 02/23/2020 at 12:24

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That does seem like the POs plan for me

Thomas Donohue > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 12:25

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Battery-powered/rechargeable LED stick-on lights. Done.

/s

(although they are a great temporary solution when you’re still tracing/replacing shoddy electrical work)

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 12:28

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Welcome to Utah?

Nom De Plume > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 12:40

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Is there a legal recourse or are the laws structured such as to make it an option i naccessi ble to anyone who would require it.

Aremmes > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 12:45

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This makes me glad that the post-inspection repairs requested by the buyers (of my house) and me (for the house I’m buying) are few and relatively simple. In my current house, the inspection found a number of ground and neutral wires connected together on the same busbar, an ungrounded outlet where the ground wire was instead used for a light switch, and a non-GFCI outlet in the laundry closet, while in the other house we found double taps in the breaker panel, a bunch of uncovered outlets, and a light switch intended for outdoor lighting that instantly trips the breaker because the current owner ripped the lights without capping the wires and caused a short.

TorqueToYield > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 12:46

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So much with electrical is easier to start over and do it right from the beginning rather than spend three times that long trying to bodge a bodge to be right.

WilliamsSW > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 02/23/2020 at 12:50

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W elcome to everywhere really. I’ve had plenty of these experiences around Chicago,  as has shop-teacher.

jimz > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 12:53

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I don’t know if you’ve read much Dave Barry, but he had a book about home ownership which included rants about this.  Something like “I didn’t think you could construct an entire room out of spackle.”

HammerheadFistpunch > jimz 02/23/2020 at 12:55

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Love Dave Barry. Also true

Nibby > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 12:55

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https://cnj.craigslist.org/cto/7078479557.html

what do you think of this? don’t care for the plow so i’ll try to see if i can negotiate without it... i don’t think it’s worth more than $2,500 anyways

HammerheadFistpunch > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 02/23/2020 at 12:56

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Diy Nation. To be fair there are some really handy people here too 

HammerheadFistpunch > Nom De Plume 02/23/2020 at 12:59

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I honestly haven't looked into it but I suspect I would have to prove negligence which would be tough since the house has had many owners

HammerheadFistpunch > Nibby 02/23/2020 at 13:02

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That’s an amount of rust I wouldn't be comfortable with, but as a beater... So long as you wouldn't have to work on anything in that rust

MM54 > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 13:16

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Electrical hackjobs are probably the worst of it; if your floors, siding, or roof are done poorly you can tell right away; if the plumbing is done poorly you’ll find out when it starts to leak; if the electrical work is done poorly, you may never find out until there is a major problem.

My boss has horror stories of what he found in his old house - random single conductors, romex cut into notches in the drywall and mudded over or running behind chair rail, etc. He ended up rewiring that whole house from scratch, which is s ometimes the best way to fix something.

SiennaMan > Nibby 02/23/2020 at 13:18

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I find that idea far more appealing than I should..

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 13:18

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There are, they’re just surrounded by people that are oblivious to how bad they are. DIY is such an obsession there. It can be hard to find pros to do work as a result of that DIY obsession .

Me? I’m hiring an electrician to do it right.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Aremmes 02/23/2020 at 13:19

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But all those are pretty obvious. At least if you know a little bit . Unfortunately t he inspection won’t find the hidden examples of Hammerhead’s like the overstuffed junction box and the one in a wet area; both covered up with drywall.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > WilliamsSW 02/23/2020 at 13:20

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It’s a different level in Utah. Seriously. DIY is everywhere, but Utah seems to do it more than just about anywhere else. It’s almost like a badge of honor there to do it yourself or with the help of your first cousin that did it themselves.

VincentMalamute-Kim > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 13:20

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You know whats against code? hiding a junction box. Especially when it’s wired badly and overstuffed.

That’s exactly why you want to hide a junction box! /s

HammerheadFistpunch > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 02/23/2020 at 13:30

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Yup. I can frame and drywall and paint and do finish work... But plumbing and electrical will be subcontracted. Probably flooring too because I can never get carpet right and I love my knees

HammerheadFistpunch > MM54 02/23/2020 at 13:31

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Exactly right

WilliamsSW > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 02/23/2020 at 13:35

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I haven’t lived there, but it makes sense to me that the West in general attracts a lot of people who are fiercely independent, and determined to do it themselves because they know better than the gummint or some "overpriced expert".

vondon302 > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 14:06

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Tore down my first house for stuff like this. 

VincentMalamute-Kim > VincentMalamute-Kim 02/23/2020 at 14:13

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Thinking about it, the point for people is not that inspections are useless but to know that they have limitations.

HammerheadFistpunch > vondon302 02/23/2020 at 14:48

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The basement and main floor were done at different times by different people so I feel better about the main floor but the basement is getting redone 

SiennaMan > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 14:55

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That sounds like an especially bad inspection. (there’s a simple tester to put on outlets that will tell you that they’re reverse wired)

That said, on the subject of fire hazards, my inspection missed that our dryer vent was hidden under a deck and was completely gummed closed.  First week in the new house, I was taking a circular saw to part of the deck, smashing off the old cover and using a leaf blower to clear out the line.  Eventually had to get the whole vent line replaced.

The Snowman > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 16:11

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If you're pulling the sheetrock down that will make the redo so easy that I would do it myself.

HammerheadFistpunch > The Snowman 02/23/2020 at 16:29

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I plan to do most of it myself, just not electrical and plumbing.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 17:34

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Now... imagine if all those wires carried 240 V. Welcome to my world. Fortunately, I know and use a very good licenced electrician.

The Snowman > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 17:42

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Electric and plumbing would be all I want to do myself. Guess we are opposites.

HammerheadFistpunch > The Snowman 02/23/2020 at 17:53

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I’m fair at framing, good at drywall, good at finish work. I hate dealing with code though. Framing code ain't no thang... It's the others that are tedious

Nibby > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 17:54

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i still don’t evne know if i should take the 1.5 hour trek to even see it

DipodomysDeserti > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 18:06

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What’s really scary is the work could have been done by someone passing themselves off as a professional.

ClassicDatsunDebate > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 18:22

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I hate that shit.  I’ve found a few things like that in our house.  I’m a DIY’er that’s happy to do plumbing and electrical (in fact I love it) but I always do stuff to code.  We have some wall sconces that the wife was contemplating deleting, until I told her the steps required to not have a blank on the wall where the fixture was.  “Can’t you just drywall over it?”  NO.

RPM esq. > Nom De Plume 02/23/2020 at 18:31

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The numerous inspections theoretically conducted since the shoddy work was done presumably erase any liability the perpetrator might otherwise have had. You’re allowed to do shitty work on your own house, and you’re allowed to buy or not buy a house where a previous owner did shitty work...that’s what inspections are for. Caveat emptor.

I don’t think you or I would like to live in a world where you could sue somebody several owners, several inspections, and a remodel back just because they screwed up a DIY job when they owned the place.

...Even for hidden  stuff like this an inspector almost certainly wouldn’t find.

Nom De Plume > RPM esq. 02/23/2020 at 18:43

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That last line is the basis of development.  Purposely hidden, which if the materials, junction boxes, were produced no earlier than previous seller...

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > TorqueToYield 02/23/2020 at 19:57

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that was my older sisters place. the entire second floor, 4 bedrroms and 2 baths was run off 2 breakers. it was built in the 70swith more crap added later. electrician walks around says exactly that . “I can do this in half the time, if I just rip all this crap out and start over again”  

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 19:59

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a friend grew up doing renovations with his dad (contractor) and he has somewhere an album of “just rolled into the shop” level of hacks. He said it was painful house shopping trying to convince his wife that certain places weren’t worth it. 

TheRealBicycleBuck > HammerheadFistpunch 02/23/2020 at 22:47

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Electrical is something I haven’t messed with. Well, ever since I was a kid and I shocked the crap out of myself goofing around with a small a/c motor that had a couple of bare wires.

RPM esq. > Nom De Plume 02/23/2020 at 22:59

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You’d have to prove it was an intentional trap or something, not just an unskilled  amateur electrician who didn’t know it was bad to hide your junction boxes in the ceiling, or bother to check the code.

Nom De Plume > RPM esq. 02/23/2020 at 23:42

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Alright, I admitted up front   the legalities would be thick. It was more of a feelgood commi seration with his pain even suggesting there might be a recourse.

RPM esq. > Nom De Plume 02/23/2020 at 23:51

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Not trying to be a jerk, just weighing in on the (interesting!)  question from a legal perspective .

Nom De Plume > RPM esq. 02/24/2020 at 00:11

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I incompletely understand the local laws or I wouldn’t have brought it up in the first place. Just chose a point to admit this wasn’t going anywhere helpful for his resolving the problems after suggesting a few angles.